I also sent an order to the LDS FHL at Salt Lake City for copies of the pages in the "Sindelfinger Familien" that contain the Helds.
I did find one younger sibling of Anna's, Johann Georg. There is still a mystery. On Anna's birth record one of the sponsors was Johann Georg Gutt. Probably an uncle of Johannes, because I cannot find a birth record for him.
Matthaus' wedding record said he was from "Dummlingen." I can find no Dummlingen, the closest is Tumlingen. (In old German it was common to interchange Ts and Ds.) Tumlingen is about 30 miles from where the Helds came from, Biesingen, in about the same time. I must find if there was there a war or famine that caused families to move north about 1700 from the southern Baden/Würtemberg and Switzerland areas. Tumlingen is getting closer to Switzerland. Tumlingen will be the next film I order.
Here is my GUTH lineup now.
I have asked an internet friend to compose a letter for me to send back to them and explain that it is confirmed that they were from Bad Dürrheim-Biesingen. What I asked them to do was to link ole Hans Held to one of the earlier Held families in the same area. If I can get that link the Held family will be traced back to 1550, or there abouts.
A couple days ago I discovered I had 1870 US Census records that linked the Blyholders and the Reichenbachs in the middle 1800s. If that can be confirmed, the statement by Jean Rupert that the Helds, Blyholders, and Reichenbachs were friends was not quite true. They were all also family.
I ordered the Tumlingen film today.
I just received an email from Mike Pantel, the internet friend I asked to look at the letter from the Baden Church Archive. He confims that they are directing me to Bissingen, but he also says that they sent my documentation to the Württemberg Church Archive in Stuttgart. He sent me a letter to send but he also said he would call the Baden Church Archive and talk to Frau Schlia or Herr Fischer and try to get the study back on track. That's more than one should ask.
I downloaded the latest version of GED2HTML (v3.5) and built a new family tree from the Helds in Germany file, which I then uploaded to the GeoCities webpages.
There are 11 generations of Helds in the book. Now to enter the data and merge with what I already read from the microfilm to see what surprises I have.
I've found a few birthdates and marriage dates that are slightly different. Could be my reading of the films, or Helmuth Maier's. Will check the critical ones in our line. The new Family Tree Maker V5.0 now handles multiple birth, marriage, and death entries so the conflicting data can all be stored and a choice made as to which should be shown.
"Another interesting note for both of us that I got via my father is that according to a "Salemer Urkunde" (This was a convent) (Trans:Urkunde=document) about a Salemer property in Villingen from 1244 they mention a " Conrad der Helt" and in a "Güterrodel" (Literal trans: Guterrodel=Goods Toboggan) from convent Tennenbach 1363 they mention "der Helt von Marpach" (Helt = Hero). Marpach is in the "Brigachtal" near Villingen. The note says further that it is presumed that the Höld/Held family in the 15th centurty went from the "Brigachtal" to Villingen. Furthermore that around 1750 in Marbach and Klingen/Klengen? there were several people with the name Höld. That the name changed between Höld-Helt-Höldt-Held. And finaly that the name Höld occurs in "urkunde" in the Villingen area already very early."
According to ShtetlSeeker there are no less than 15 towns and villages named Marbach(Marpach) in Germany, 5 are within Württemberg alone. One is within 6 miles of Biesingen, and a part of the municipality of Villingen-Schwenningen. ShtetlSeeker gives no Kilngen in Germany but there is one Klengen about 5 miles west of Biesingen, a mile or two south of Marbach. ShtetlSeeker does not give anyplace like Brigachtal, but GeoSev does. It appears to be a municipality (a conglomeration of villages) that includes Klengen. My ADAC (German equivalent of AAA) 1:150,000 map of Schwarzwald shows all these places.
My ADAC map also shows a point of interest within Bad Dürrheim (about 3 miles east of Brigachtal) called Solemar. Could that be "Salemer?" It's more likely that is a coincidence and it means a sun room in the bath house at Bad Dürrheim (the bath at Dürrheim). Ingeborg says "Salemer" means Salem. The "-er" could be the German possesive form.
Anyone want to research this possible connection to our family? Or, should I contact the Baden church archive or some other local archive and give them some money to research this. (I'll need some help.) There might be a problem because the Baden church archive is "Evangelische" and this convent is "Katholische." These convents predate Martin Luther's Reformation. I'll make a search in the LDS catalog for "Salemer" and post a note on the Baden-Würtemberg message board.
Interesting side note: Frederick Christian Held, my Ggrandfather, was a huckster, and if I read Guterrodel correctly old Conrad der Helt was also.
So far I have found that Christina's maternal grandmother's mother (Magdalena Wanner's mother, Maria Dorothea Held/Höld) was in the Held line from Sindelfingen. I now have the Sindelfingen line of Helds back to c1610. Christina's grandfather (Philipp Joachim Held) was from the Held line from B-O-Ö, and the B-O-Ö line of Helds are firmly identified to c1630 with potential links to 1550. Somewhere we will probably find that the Helds in B-O-Ö and those in Sindelfingen are linked together, probably with those in Villingen from Brigachtal and "der Helt von Marpach".
Probably have enough new information to update the published family trees, but with new information coming I will wait a day or two. Rebuilding the FTM homepage reports is easy, but updating the GED2HTML data for the GeoCities homepage is a pain because there are over 300 files to be uploaded. It's a good thing I found how to upload using an FTP application rather than the GeoCities upload system.
Old Adolph, the earliest Held shown in "Sindelfinger Familien" with an approximate birthdate in 1609 is identified as from Zabern. There is no town called Zabern or anything close in all of eastern Europe. Is it in Switzerland? Switzerland is only a few miles away to the south.
Got a call from the FHC. The film from Tumlingen is in. I will look at it tomorrow.
I looked at the Tumlingen film and could not find a reference to Mattheus Gutt in the 1680 era. In fact I could not find a reference to any Gutts or Guths. Another dud.
Also looked up Salem. Looks like there are no old convent records, only local church data starting in 1859 for the Evangelische and 1668 for the Katholische. Neither of these are old enough. If this is the place where the old convent was, the records must be stored somewhere. I wonder if the Catholic church has an archive?
It appears that Salem is a tourist attraction castle. They have a webpage at Salem with a live camera feed of the castle grounds. There are a group of pictures at Landesbildstelle Württemberg under the link on the right side called Diareihen im Internet that are also about Cloister at Salem. In this group was a photo of "Die Bibliothek" (the Library). Since they have a library there I sent an email to the address given on the webpage asking about old Conrad der helt. The response from Dr. Sonnfried Weber was: "We are very sorry, that we can not be of further help. The very best is, to come over and find out. Salem and lake Constance is worthwhile to visit." I should note that when we were there in July, we drove within a couple miles of Salem Castle and had no idea it was there. We may have seen a sign, but we had seen so many signs to Schloßes we probably ignored it.
On Tennenbach they indicated that it was founded in 1161, it is near
79312 Emmendingen, but it is now in ruins. Emmendingen is about 20-25
due west of the area of Brigachtal. Their papers are probably in an
somehere nearby, probably Freiburg.
Link to September 1998
Copyright 1998 by Fred H. Held